Zimmerman is screwed.

[maxomai]

Via NBC: Zimmerman jury will consider manslaughter charges.

IMO, Zimmerman is screwed. All the jury has to decide is that Zimmerman acted recklessly and that Martin died as a result. Which is, in fact, what Zimmerman is basically stating as his defense from second degree murder.

Here's hoping the wannabe Paul Kerseys out there pay attention.

Comments

Of course he is.

[arkham4269.livejournal.com]

Frankly I felt from all my time in CJ courses that he was hosed the minute he disobeyed the police to stay out of the area. Neighborhood watch or not, Martin was not doing anything overt so there was never any 'clear and present danger' to cause Zimmerman to feel the need to do anything.

So pretty much he took it upon himself to disobey a lawful (and pretty smart) order by the police.

Plus, let's face it, if you were suddenly accosted by an aggressive person with a firearm, you might fear for your life and fight back. Given that it was *Zimmerman* who instigated the meeting between them, to me the burden of proof is on Zimmerman to prove he *didn't* murder Martin.

Yes, innocent till proven guilty, but the train of evidence is against Zimmerman and conveniently for Zimmerman, Martin can't give his side of the story. So to me we have a guy with a history of issues who goes against a police warning to confront some 16yo kid who might justifiably freak out when this is done.

Plus come on, provoking people into a reaction so you can "defend yourself" is basic 101 for people like Zimmerman. Hell countries have been doing it for years. American settlers were aces at this. Piss off the Indians till they respond (as anyone would) then cry to the Army about the "savages" and then the boys in blue kill all the Indians and the settlers get "free" land.

Here Zimmerman is trying to do the whole Portland cop thing "I felt threatened" which doesn't work because he *chose* to disobey an order not to investigate and thus set up the situation which may have caused the response he was supposedly defending against.

I mean destroying a neighbor's bee box because they were stinging you after you went up and started whacking it with a bat is not defending yourself.

Re: Of course he is.

[robby.livejournal.com]

It was a civilian, non-emergency dispatcher who said "you don't need to do that." And he said it after Zimmerman had already exited his truck

Re: Of course he is.

[maxomai.livejournal.com]

So pretty much he took it upon himself to disobey a lawful (and pretty smart) order by the police.

Well, that's the thing. If a 911 operator tells you to stay in your car, is that a lawful order from a police officer? Are 911 operators police officers?

If Zimmerman had disobeyed a police order, this case would be a slam dunk.

What's more interesting to me in this case is the racial politics. The black community is pissed off because they think that what Zimmerman did is exactly what white cops have been doing for decades. Meanwhile, you have white conservatives claiming that this affair didn't take on a racial angle until Al Sharpton got involved, and that, absent of that, this case would be slam dunk self defense.

Frankly, I think the white conservatives are kidding themselves. At best, Zimmerman acted recklessly and is guilty of manslaughter. At worst, he provoked a fight with a black kid and "had to defend himself," effectively committing murder. This seems perfectly obvious to me, but white conservatives are acting anywhere from oblivious to actively racist. One poster on the Pennsylvania Gun Broker FB page commented that the FBI should round up the Black Panthers and any other black person calling for violence in case of a "not guilty" verdict. They got, last I checked, eight likes, more than anyone else in that thread.

Personally, I am going to make sure to keep my gun handy while the jury deliberates. Riots aren't very likely where I live, but you never know when some cracker will take a look at my Obama sticker and decide to act preemptively.

What is the mission

[arkham4269.livejournal.com]

Whether 911 operatives are police or not, the who point of Neighborhood Watch programs such as NOW (Neighbors On Watch) is they report in and THAT'S IT!

Having a gun or even some military training does not make you a cop. Even if you were a military MP, you are still just a regular civilian from the point of few of the law. The police has the training (supposedly) but more importantly the mandate to investigate things.

So much of the problem I see with the whole open/concealed carry is that it gives too many people the idea that they "should do something" when all they are doing is escalating something or making something out of nothing.

As has been said before, so many times people will say, "If I was at (insert shooting tragedy here) I would have capped his ass!" while in reality the person probably might be killed by others with weapons or usually the responding police themselves.

You might think you are a Good Guy(tm) but you're just a guy/gal with a gun which anyone in Portland should know will get you killed or at least shot.

Zimmerman's mission as a neighborhood watch guy was over the moment he called it in. Since there is no evidence or wittiness stating Martin was actively committing a crime that couldn't wait for the cops (such as assault or rape) then Zimmerman pretty much created the situation. Given his prior history, it would be hard for the jury not to feel he went into the situation with the wrong attitude which caused problems.

Plus not to arm-chair quarterback, but I'm tired of seeing fully grown men suddenly feeling threatened to the point of killing people. Is getting a bit of a beat down worth killing someone over? I mean Martin wasn't armed. Did Zimmerman pull the gun on him to get this macho feeling of power which he couldn't get via physical intimidation? Did Martin freak out over this obvious escalation.

Going back to open/concealed carry, that is what I don't like. Even if I like you, I don't like the fact you carry something that gives you the opportunity to kill me even if I flee. So again, even if I like you, you're a threat even if a small one. So if more people carry guns, more people (like me) feel threatened to the point where I think I might need a gun. Not because of criminals or because I think the cops aren't doing the job. No, because I feel threatened that someone with a gun permit who thinks they MUST be armed all the time is more of a potential threat than the odd criminal.

I knew a concealed carry guy in the Guard who had a temper, was twitchy and just sometimes scary. I'd want to carry just in case he freaked out from stress...which he often did. Being armed allowed a potential screaming fit to turn into a bad situation.

Frankly I don't want to live in a society that is so fucked up that ordinary people feel the need to carry deadly force projecters at all time.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

That's truly excellent news, I was worried that the case would be second degree murder or nothing. I'm not at all certain that Zimmerman can be convicted of second degree murder, but manslaughter is pretty darn obvious in this case.